Speaker 1 00:00:21 Everybody. This is Ty on grindstone elevate. And today I’m here with John Hulen, who is a certified coach, a speaker, an author, and podcaster. So John is an extremely busy guy, John, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 00:00:35 Thank you for having me, Ty. I really appreciate it. Glad to be here.
Speaker 1 00:00:38 Yeah, absolutely. Well, for those who may not know you, why don’t you go ahead, introduce yourself and get us a little bit of context and background to who you are and what you’ve been doing.
Speaker 2 00:00:47 Sure. Um, well you mentioned several of the things that I do, so I’ll try and wrap it up in this. I have been an entrepreneur for over 20 years. I’ve started several businesses during that time. Some have done well, others have not. Uh, the things that I love right now that I do the most of is coaching and speaking. Uh, I’m in the process of writing my first book, as you mentioned, I’m also a podcaster and something relatively new is I’m a voiceover artist. So I do voiceover work as well.
Speaker 1 00:01:18 That’s awesome. You do have, you do have a great voice.
Speaker 2 00:01:22 I appreciate that. Believe it or not, it is something I work on. So that to me is something that’s really important, especially since we’re talking in the podcasting world. And for those of you who are podcaster or think you might want to be one of the things that will help you the most is if you really work on improving your speaking voice, work on it all the time, it does make a big difference.
Speaker 1 00:01:46 Yeah, that’s good advice. That’s something that I don’t do nearly enough. So a very good reminder. Well, th those talk about the first thing podcasting. So your podcast is relationships and revenue, which I love the name, um, and understanding the podcast. Uh, John and I have been connected for, for quite some time online. Uh, so I got to see a lot of his guests and whatnot. He’s got some really powerful guests, but why don’t you kind of walk us through why you started the podcast and why relationships and revenue and how those two go hand in hand for you? Sure.
Speaker 2 00:02:19 Well, I will tell you that the beginning point for relationships and revenue, it came from a place of pain. Um, now I realize most of you are probably listening to this and watching it, but, uh, if you were to see behind me, I have pictures of me with my children. I have three, I have a boy and two girls. What you don’t see in there is my ex wife. I’ve been divorced for over 11 years now, and that is my place of pain. It was my divorce that took place April 1st, 2010, which I was making the data. I’m not really happened on April fool’s day. Really did. Uh, but you know, once I was able to begin to process and work through the pain of my divorce, I began to realize something very, very important. I had an epiphany and the epiphany was this. My pain is not for me.
Speaker 2 00:03:08 My pain is for other people and my pain became my purpose. And so in that I created the podcast called relationships and revenue. And the purpose of it is to help men get better at their most significant relationships at home. So they can be better in their business relationships. Uh, what I don’t want to see is I don’t want to see another man end up like me because my divorce, as I believe most are, was completely preventable. That’s the beginning part. So that’s the relationship side of relationships and revenue. So I don’t just talk about the relationship side of things. I also talk about revenue because I am an entrepreneur and have been for a long time and I have a heart for entrepreneurs. And so I bring guests on my show that are fantastic, amazing people in their own, right? But they also have expertise in areas that can help entrepreneurs improve in the various aspects of their businesses.
Speaker 1 00:04:03 It makes a tremendous amount of sense. I wanted to get your perspective. One of the things I had written down, uh, knowing that, you know, kind of your skew is a bit, bit more male-centric cause you’re coming from your own perspective, your own place, right? Being a, being a man. Yeah. Why do you think it’s so many men, uh, are one or two dimensional or maybe they’re not, but that’s just kind of always been my perception.
Speaker 2 00:04:25 Oh, I think you’re on the money there. Uh, now this is my belief. I realize not everybody has this, but um, just for those of you listening, just kind of go with this and see if I come to a logical conclusion. I believe that God put inside of each man a desire to pursue. We know how to do it. Nobody has to teach us how, but there’s something that happens inside of each man. There’s like a switch in the back of our brains that gets turned off. When we get married, we no longer continue to pursue. And that’s why I believe so many men dive headlong into careers and or hub please, because there’s no end to those. You know, there’s not a ladder high enough for you to climb. There’s not enough money to make. And oh my goodness. Now this is not my particular hobby. So if it’s yours, I apologize. If this offends you, I’m just not meant to, but golf. Oh my goodness. There’s always a new club, new shoe, new glove, new place to play when it comes to that, there’s always something new. And so what I try to do is I try to encourage them. It’s like, look, let’s take some of the energy that you’re expanding in those other areas. It is misplaced energy. So let’s take that and resubmit it back where it belongs and teach men how to continue to pursue their wives.
Speaker 1 00:05:46 Hmm.
Speaker 2 00:05:47 So the long winded answer to your question is yes, I do believe men are one. If they’re lucky, two dimensional and that they’re missing a huge aspect of it, I’ll go little deeper for you into that. I think it stems back to what we’re taught as boys. Yeah. We’re taught things like boys don’t cry, which is telling boys as we age and eventually become men. It’s telling us that this whole idea of emotions and feelings that is not our domain, we don’t belong in there, but that is the very thing. That is the oxygen that keeps our spouses alive. It’s what they need from us. They want to know what’s going on with us. And it’s our job as men to overcome those things. And look, I realized talking about feelings and emotions for most men is it’s, it can be scary. And it’s like, whoa, I’m not real comfortable talking about that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 00:06:46 Don’t think of it that way. Just think of it as a new skill set, if it was your job and your boss came to you and I realized if you own your own business and you have several clients, you have lots of bosses, but for the moment, let’s assume you have one boss, your boss comes to you and says, look, we’re changing directions with the company. This is a new skillset that if by this date you don’t have it. You’re gone. What are you going to do? You’re going to learn that skillset, same thing here. And this is way more important than any job. Way more important. I totally,
Speaker 1 00:07:19 The
Speaker 2 00:07:19 Time.
Speaker 1 00:07:21 Yeah, I guess that was kind of to piggyback on that a little bit more. Are there anything that, you know, I’m sure there’s a lot of men out there, maybe even women that are listing all the audiences about 80% male, um, they’re listening to going, man, that’s me. I’m like I’m in a dying relationship. I’m headstrong on work. I’m completely focused. Is there any one or two things you say, Hey, this is a great way to start to pivot in a different direction. To start to learn a new skill set or pay attention to this, or pay attention to your wife, to do this or implement this weekly and any advice you can give there.
Speaker 2 00:07:53 Oh sure. Wow. Trying to limit it. Only the big thing. Um, okay. I would say this. The first thing you have to do is you have to evaluate how much time the two of you are spending together. One-on-one and I’m not talking about sex here. I’m talking about real meaningful conversations together conversations where you’re not talking about. I mean, if you have kids, you’re not talking about the kids. You’re not talking about the bills. You’re not talking about all the stuff you have to do. You’re talking about your relationship. You’re talking about your hopes and dreams. You’re talking about her hopes and dreams and where you see yourselves together, six months, a year, five to 10 years down the road, those kinds of conversations. Now I would guess if first of all, if you have figured out as a man, that there’s a problem in a relationship it’s been going on for a really long, long time.
Speaker 2 00:08:39 And she knew way before you did, I can promise you that happened. Now, once it gets to the point where you have figured it out, it’s not, it can be repaired is just gonna take a lot of work. So it begins by doing little things. So let me offer two things. Here’s the first one be given to do something that is helpful to her and the household. And isn’t necessarily something that’s in your wheelhouse. Let me do an example. My suspicion is that most men are not doing the dishes. That’s just my guess, because I know a lot of guys and I know most of you don’t do it. So what I want you to do today is this. When you get home from what you normally do, you guys sit down and you have dinner together with no fanfare, none. You don’t bring it up at all.
Speaker 2 00:09:33 When dinner is over, just get up from the table, walk into the kitchen, start doing the dishes. Not just today, continue to do it over and over again. Just keep doing it because it’s helping her. It’s helping the household. That’s right. And eventually believe it or not. It gets easier over time doing that sort of thing. Now I know that seems like a trivial thing, but it is a start. It is a start because I can promise you, some women are going to be thrilled from the moment you do it all. There’s going to be like, Hmm, that’s interesting. Let’s see how long this lasts. What is going to want to see it over time? Here’s the second one. My suspicion is that most of you do not have a clearly defined on the calendar date night or date day. Now you have to determine as a couple, what works best for you?
Speaker 2 00:10:24 Is it date night, date day, is it once a week? Is it every other week? Is it once a month? I’m not here to judge. I’m here to say, you have to figure out what that is, but you have to start. And if your relationship is anything like mine was when I got married, my then wife was the one who always set that stuff up. When we had date nights, she did everything. She figured everything even got so much. She even picked up my clothes for me seriously, where I just, I just showed up. I changed and we were good. Well, guess what? Fellows, those days are over. It’s your turn. Now you need to own date night. That’s yours. Now you’re going to have listeners here, Ty, who are gonna push back. They’re gonna say, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on, John, hold on. You don’t understand.
Speaker 2 00:11:08 Cause when we were first dating, you know, she had her money. I had my money. And so we went on these elaborate dates. Now it’s our money and she’s not going to like that. I’m like, first of all, you’re assuming she’s stupid. And doesn’t know how much you spend on those dates that she knows full. Well, how much he’s been on those dates. But if money truly is an issue tie, I’ll give you two date. Examples that can be used. One cost, a dollar one’s free. You’re ready for these. Or they come. Here’s the first one. This one costs a dollar. So fellows you’ve arranged ahead of time. If you have children that they are properly taken care of that does not mean you plop them down in front of the TV on some streaming service and leave. I means there is a proper responsible adult there they can provide for them care for them.
Speaker 2 00:11:56 Make sure they get fed. That sort of thing. You have to tell some guys that. So I’m just saying now once that part is taken care of, if you have kids, then you’ve already arranged ahead of time. What’s going to happen. So her job, she shows up, you escort her out to the car. You open the door again. If I have to tell you to open the door, we’ve got other things to work on, but gentlemen, you need to be doing that. Open the door for your wives, not just the car, all of them do it all the time. So we’re opening door. We escorted her into the car. You drive to McDonald’s, you go through the drive through you, get a dollar soft serve cone and you share it. That costs you a dollar. Here’s the next one. And this one’s free. Once the children are taking care of again, if you have them go for a leisurely walk in your neighborhood.
Speaker 2 00:12:48 So again, this is not a workout kind of walk. This is just, we’re just on a stroll together in the neighborhood. And again, we’re talking about hopes, dreams, feelings what’s going on, man. I don’t know a better way to say it than this, that stuff that you share with her about what’s going on with you on the inside. That is her oxygen to breathe in the relationship. And when you don’t share it, you are killing her. I don’t know a better way to say it than that. Yeah. So that’s a couple of examples of some things that you can do to try and help your relationship right away. These are things you can implement right now.
Speaker 1 00:13:26 No, I, I totally love it. And I think the big part takeaway for me is that I try to be very coming from, uh, uh, parents being divorced and my wife’s parents been together for 38 years. I really try to watch what her dad does and, and, and learn better habits than really were taught to me. And so, um, I’ve noticed though, cause I’m someone who frequently does the dishes. Uh, but I typically will look for a little pat on the back though. So I think I need to, I need to be not the claim to the whole house that I’ve done the dishes and just kind of do it and, and, uh, and move on. But that’s great advice, John. I appreciate that. Yeah. One of the things I did want to talk to you about being an entrepreneur and having been in relationships and having a family is, you know, how do you help people just in general? Um, maybe don’t have a supportive spouse of their dreams.
Speaker 2 00:14:16 Mm, okay. That’s hard. Um, I’ll, I’ll tell you if, especially if you are either in business for yourself or trying to go in business for yourself, if your spouse is not on board, it’s going to be really hard for that to survive. Really? I’m not just talking about the business. I’m talking about the relationship too. I mean, I’ll be quite candid with you. I don’t even know if you’re aware of this. The Harvard business school did a study some years back about the divorce rate of entrepreneurs. Now the national is about 50%. Any idea what it is for entrepreneurs
Speaker 1 00:14:54 70,
Speaker 2 00:14:56 Uh, you’re very closed 65%. And so, I mean, 50%, 65% to somebody like me, that doesn’t mean a whole lot. So I asked a friend of mine who actually happens to have a PhD in statistical analysis, which didn’t even know you could get such a PhD, but apparently you can. And so I asked him to look at that study and he came back to me, he’s like, this is a huge deal. I’m like, okay, explain that to me. What’s that mean? He goes a 15% increase in anything in my world is something that you pay attention to. And he said, so when it comes to entrepreneurs and the divorce rate of entrepreneurs, he said, typically what happens is the reason that divorces are happening with that greater frequency or that big jump is because they’re not getting the support at home for one of two reasons. It’s the person, the other person in the relationship either stays at home all the time. Or the other spouse has a separate what we would term regular job. And they don’t know what it’s like to own a business and to run it for him or herself. And so it there’s a lot of things to break down in communication. Then of course there’s the money aspect that goes into it. There’s a lot of stuff that plays into that. So yeah, it’s a big deal.
Speaker 1 00:16:16 Yeah, it is. It’s an, I’m married to an entrepreneur. So I’ve had my, I’ve had some e-commerce businesses, but my wife’s the one she’s, I mean, we’ve been together almost 10 years and she’s never had a job quote on quote. It’s always been me. So I’m on the flip side where, you know, we both work a lot of hours, but you know, oftentimes she’s working till 10, 10 30, 11 at night. And, um, you know, we, we don’t have an issue with it. I give her the space she needs cause I love it, but I can see how for a lot of people who are done at five and you’ve got a spouse that’s working another five hours, it’s it could be challenging. Um, yeah, no, sorry. I appreciate that perspective because I think it’s important for people to acknowledge it. It’s, it’s a real issue I did want to, I wanted to pivot a bit more to the, to the revenue side and kind of talk a little bit about your, your, um, F six formula and some of your experiences as an entrepreneur that’s made you successful.
Speaker 2 00:17:10 Okay. Uh, the, the F six formula is, well, as you mentioned earlier, my podcast called relationships and revenue. That’s one of the things that I emphasized early on during the podcast was talking about the F six formula. And they happened to be the six areas of a man’s life. He tends to struggle in, especially after he gets married. Uh, those six things happen to be faith, fashion, fitness, food, friendship, and fun, those six areas. Now I addressed a couple of those early. I addressed the, uh, the fun stuff. So having the date night sort of thing, um, and that’s important, but as it relates to to revenue, so it’s really more of that stuff is related on the personal side. So in your personal life, but it is my belief that how your personal relationships go is a clear reflection of how your business relationships go.
Speaker 2 00:18:06 Yeah. Because the thing that goes with you into both of those is you, right? So, you know, some people get, they think they get good at hiding, you know, what’s going on at home and it doesn’t affect them at business bull. I just don’t believe it. Not for a second. It does affect you. So how you deal with it makes the biggest impact. So working on improving those particular areas makes it such that you don’t have to take that negative stuff with you into the business side of thing, into revenue. And it makes it so that work is more enjoyable and you know, something, you know, you’re going to be doing for a long time. Why not enjoy it?
Speaker 1 00:18:53 Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think that that’s important. Like you’re saying too, you know, you’re always with you, right? So as you versus you, for lack of a better term. And so the more that you’re focused on faith, whatever that is to you, especially for me, you know, the fitness it’s like, if I’m not in the gym every morning, I know you’re in the gym constantly. I love all your videos. You’re shooting from the gym. Um, you know, like it’s, doesn’t start my day. Well, if I’m not, if I’m not waking up and serving myself first, by being in meditation and then going to the gym, then I don’t have the cognitive clarity when I start my day at work. And so I think that a lot of guys just don’t recognize that it’s a, Hey, I start work at eight. So I’m up by seven 15, I’m rushing.
Speaker 1 00:19:35 Maybe I eat, maybe I don’t. I get to work. I’m not really starting my day till 8 30, 8 45. When I get my coffee, you know, we go through this whole pattern where, um, you know, Brendon Burchard has a quote, you know, wasted hours Leave still wasted lives. And I believe that’s how a lot of guys people start their day and it, and it sets them behind. Sorry. So I love that. What have been some of your biggest lessons as an entrepreneur that you’ve been able to, you know, maybe apply to relationships or just lessons in general?
Speaker 2 00:20:03 Um, okay. Uh, there’s several, uh, let me share a couple of them. One of my early on mentors in business was my former. Father-in-law a brilliant businessman and he shared many things with me. The, to hang on to the most are these be willing to hire the best CPA and the best attorneys you can afford, because both will keep you out of jail. That was seem simple, but they’re very true. Yeah. Yeah. They’re very true. Um, let’s see, what else could I share with you? Uh, when it comes to, okay, let me say it this way. I don’t care if you work for yourself or you work for somebody else. And if you’re working for somebody else where you rank on the corporate ladder, if you’re on the bottom rung, you’re in sales. If you’re the top CEO you’re in sales, everyone is in sales.
Speaker 2 00:21:02 I don’t care if your job is called customer service, you are still in sales. So we need to have a better definition of what sales is because sales doesn’t have to be that use cars, slimy kind of feeling stuff. Sales to me, sales is serving, selling is serving. So if I’m serving people, they never feel sold to it’s because I care about them and what’s best for them. And I can’t begin to tell you tie the number of times that I have told people I am not the right person for you. Yeah. Where I could have taken the money. And didn’t, and made recommended in dation, psych, you know what? You need to talk to this person. I think he, or she would be a better fit for you every single time I’ve done that. The people have come back to me and thanked me for doing that every single time.
Speaker 2 00:21:53 So yeah, I gave up money. I’ve given up lots of money doing that, but it was always best for the other person. So remember that selling is serving marketing is storytelling. Now the real important part here is whose story are you telling most businesses? And I don’t care what size they are. Most businesses get it wrong. They tell the wrong story. They tell their own story. You know, they devote a lot attention to that, about us page on their website. That’s not what someone who’s interested in buying from you. I don’t care about debt and coming to you because I have a problem. And I think you might be able to help me what I care about. Who did you help before? I want to hear about that. That’s the story. So if you think of it in terms of, if you’re a star wars fan, the client is the hero in the story, or is Luke Skywalker. You are the guide or you are Yoda in the story. That’s your job. That’s my job. My job is to help guide the client to where he or she needs to go. Not necessarily where they say they want to go. You see what I’m saying? Because sometimes where they say they want to go is not the right place for them. Sure. But in part of our guidance, we show them that, although they said they wanted to go here over here is a better spot.
Speaker 1 00:23:20 No, I think that the storytelling piece you just talked about is really key because that’s, what’s going to resonate with people. And then that’s what starts to create the brand loyalty and repeat business and you know, long-term relationships. So that’s really great advice, John. Um, yeah, as we kind of wind down, I want to ask you a couple more questions. Uh, one, you know, going back to this, I love it. You know, the relationship and revenue piece. How do people find that balance? You know, I look at probably like my wife’s probably a lot of balance. I can definitely be out of balance. We’ve got two kids that are five and seven, you know, there only things you help when you coach people that tactically kind of say, I don’t think balance is possible, but I think you gotta be cognizant of it to some extent. So it kind of, how do you tow that line?
Speaker 2 00:24:05 Yeah. I don’t talk about work-life balance because as you just said, it isn’t possible. I talk about work-life harmony. That’s what I talk about. And honestly, I happen to have the city right here. This was not pre-planned at all, very young. I wrote a book called seven ways to lead. And in that book he talks about work-life harmony. So I highly recommend the book. Andre’s fabulous family sky. But, um, so if you try and think of work-life balance, you think of a scale. Okay. And it’s, it will constantly be moving like this. Never will it be like this ever it’s constantly going to go like this. So work’s going to be demanding more demanding at certain times. So you have to back off on the relational side in order to be harmonious in it. So those two can exist together. It’s just the most important part of all of that is the communication side in the relationship is being able to talk about this and have the freedom to be able to say, Hey, this is going on right now.
Speaker 2 00:25:09 So I think I will be less available during these particular times because I’m having to do this. And so it’s like, okay, we’ve talked about that. We’ve worked through it. Now. We’re able to, co-exist we’re able to be there for one another. So where you’re not able, I’ll pick, cut some of the slack. And then when that changes, cause it always does. There can be times where the roles are reversed, where you’re gonna have to devote more time to work and she’ll have to back off. It’s like, okay, I’ll grab a hold of that. And I’ll keep that ball up in the air right now. So it is possible to do it. But again, it’s about finding ways that work for you and your family unit in the moment. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1 00:25:48 That’s good. This is the constant checking in communication is, is definitely the key. Ah, that’s great. Joan, um, you do have any books you recommend.
Speaker 2 00:25:58 Oh, of course. Other than the one I just mentioned, right Andre. Oh goodness. How long has the rest of the podcast? I’m a very, I’m an avid reader. So I have lots of, lots of books I could recommend. Uh, let’s see. I kind of touched on earlier, uh, building a StoryBrand by Donald Miller. That’s that, that whole idea of, um, his particular framework for building out your business is about the guide versus the hero in the story. Um, another great one is by my friend, Mike Kim is called you are the brand fabulous Valley’s book came out earlier this year. It was a, um, wall street journal bestseller. So I highly recommend that. Um, and the other one excellence wins by Horst, Shel Holtz. Uh, horse was one of the, one of the two people who created the Ritz-Carlton hotel. Oh, cool. That hotel chain. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:26:59 Yeah. He knows. He knows something. Yeah. I bet
Speaker 2 00:27:03 A whole lot. Um, so those are a few that I could recommend. I have several others, uh, one other one, Brian Dixon wrote a book called start with your people. So it’s figuring out who, your people, who you appeal to first and then building everything from there. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:27:19 That’s so important when building a team, that’s what I’ve done. Most of my careers, flip sales teams, and it all starts with understanding, you know, who’s on the bus, who’s in the wrong seat. Who do you need to kick off when we need to bring on? And, um, right. It’s it’s it’s so it’s so pivotal. Um, and then we’re working, uh, John, where can people find you? And if they want to follow you, listen to the podcast, where can they interact with you? Sure.
Speaker 2 00:27:44 Okay. Um, pretty much any place that you all, uh, grab ahold of social media, I’m all on. So Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, I’m out at John Hulan, H U L E N a. I’m pretty easy to find my podcast is called relationships and revenue. Again, wherever you consume podcasts, I’m there on all of them. Uh, believe it or not. I also have a YouTube channel where it’s on there and not every episode is on the YouTube channel, but, um, if you listen to it on your phone, well, if I could drop it, here we go on your phone. You know, every episode is available right there right now. Uh, I’m up to 79 so far. So I’m getting real excited about getting into, getting into triple digits in the, not too distant future. So that’s super exciting, but, uh, those are the best ways to get in touch with me. And I will tell you that if you send me a DM, a direct message, I replied to them. It isn’t somebody else. It’s not some bot. It is me. So I would love to be able to talk with you, see how I can help you. Um, did that answer? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 00:28:48 No, that’s perfect. No, thank you for everybody listening. I’ll post that in the show notes, a link to John’s handles and his podcast, you can scroll right down to the show notes. If you’re watching this on YouTube and you can click a subscribe button and go listen to him, I definitely it’s so important that that to acknowledge that, you know, we’re multifaceted as human beings. So I really would encourage everybody to go listen. And I know the guests he has on and they’re powerful guests. Um, they come with their own wealth of knowledge. Obviously you’ve heard John he’s got his own as well. So it’s a dynamic podcast. I’d encourage everybody to go subscribe to, um, John, any last words of advice?
Speaker 2 00:29:28 Oh goodness. Um, you know, I’ll say this life is all about relationships and so you can, you will never do better for yourself than looking to serve other people and to have relationships with those people in your personal life and in your business life. If you put others before yourself, you can never go wrong.
Speaker 1 00:29:53 Love it. That’s a great way to finish John. Thanks so much for your time. And I really appreciate it. I’m glad we’re able to connect.
Speaker 2 00:29:59 Thank you, Ty. It was my honor to be here. Thank you so much for asking me and I hope I was able to add value to you and your listeners.
Speaker 1 00:30:06 Absolutely. You absolutely did. Thank you. You bet.