Everybody Works in Sales P. 2 – w/Niraj Kapur

Speaker 1 00:00:07 This is the grind sale and elevate Podcasts by Tyzer Evans, where we do a deep dive on the hottest, stay driven how to be a top-tier salesperson and how to elevate the quality of your life.

Speaker 2 00:00:23 Hi everybody. Thanks for joining me at grindstone elevate this week. This is Tai. I have Niraj Cappar come back for his second appearance on grindstone elevate. So we do a deep dive this time on LinkedIn and sales. Super excited to have Niraj back on as the first guest ever to be honors or second appearance on grinds. So elevate. And if you guys haven’t done so please subscribe to the podcast, drop me a five-star review, makes it easier for other people to be able to find the podcast without further ado. Here’s my conversation with the rush. All right, everybody. Thanks for joining me on grind, sell and elevate. This is Ty and got a special treat for everybody the first time anybody’s ever come back for a second time on grindstone elevate Niraj. You’re the first so welcome back.

Speaker 4 00:01:17 I am so honored. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 00:01:21 So I’m excited to have, um, Niraj on. If everybody, if you’re not familiar, you didn’t listen to our first interview. I would encourage you to go back and listen to it because they were going to be talking about something a little bit different. Um, but Niraj is the founder of everybody works in sales is an author. Uh, really I’d say sales influencer is how I, uh, I view Neeraj, but why don’t you introduce yourself again to people who didn’t listen to our first interview?

Speaker 4 00:01:46 Yeah, certainly. Um, Harvard buddy, I’m their arch. I’m a trusted sales coach and a LinkedIn influencer on the author of two Amazon bestselling books. Everybody works in sales and the easy guy to sales for business owners and people call and talk me is because they want to make more sales and close more deals. Although when I spend time with them, not in our percent of people, they can’t open deals and they don’t know what to do in the middle of the sales process. People are often just stuck in the pipeline and they don’t know what to do. And that’s really what I do is I help you engage at the beginning. And I helped me in the middle section because that’s where most people struggle. Closing deals isn’t that bad, but you know what, it’s what I love doing, but more important. That’s what I get purpose doing. And that’s what my clients get results from. So I’m very honored and very, very grateful to be doing what I do.

Speaker 2 00:02:31 Yeah. And you’re great at it. Um, and that’s interesting you have that because I think that that’s a key component that not a lot of people talk about that if you can nail the beginning of the middle part of the sales process. I mean, if you’ve done your job, the close should happen.

Speaker 4 00:02:47 The close should be natural. It should be organic. I mean, don’t get me wrong every now and again, you’re going to have clients that deliberately push it up at harder either because they want a discount or the boss demanded a discount or sometimes clients would just try and push you hard to see how you react. I mean, you look, when I buy from people, I deliberately don’t make it easy at the very end. I’m quite easy to deal with until that point. But at the very end, I’ll often deliberately ask for discount deliberately because I want to know how they’re going to react, because if they got all flustered and their voice speeds up and it raises an occupier, I’m like, do I really want to work with this person for the next year? Because the answer often is no, I don’t want to do that. So you have to, you know, I’ll often just deliberately put objections into a conversation at the end because I want to know how are you going to react to

Speaker 2 00:03:36 That makes a lot of sense. That’s interesting doing that from a customer perspective, but yeah, I don’t think that salespeople often realize that when there is a little bit of that confrontation or friction, that if you’re really trying to serve and build a relationship, will all that work you just did in the beginning to just throw it out the door.

Speaker 4 00:03:56 There is, there’s a bite. Whenever you have a sales conversation with a client. What I see a lot of people doing is rushing through the conversation, getting the price. And I think a stock and price the client says, yeah, send me a proposal. And then you spend weeks, sometimes months chasing the client, guessing proposal, quite often hearing nothing. And the client saying, I’ll come back to you. Yeah, I’ll come back to them interested because you rush through the process. What you got to do is really take your time, do the research and the client first share things you’ve read in their website or blogs or articles. So they know you’ve done your homework, which most people don’t do. Make sure you ask the right questions to get good answers from them and then make sure they know you have listened because you’ve recapped properly instead. Okay. So what I understand this and this and this, the challenge, which is that correct? Fantastic. Is there anything else I might have missed at all? And so it’s just, it should be a natural conversation where all you’re trying to do is help somebody as much as you possibly can because once you do that, the rest of the sales process is not easy, but it’s so much easier.

Speaker 2 00:05:03 Totally agree. That’s well said. Uh, so I want to, w you know, we talked a lot about off channel about talking about LinkedIn, because it’s been a huge focus. You know, I would say two years ago, it was one of those things that people used. Uh, but I feel like in the last 24 months it’s really exploded. Um, I I’ve just, you know, I get pretty inundated. I don’t know if it’s because of the podcast or my job, but I feel like every morning I opened up my box and, you know, before I would be in Brandom once or twice a month, I would get hit on LinkedIn. Now it’s like four or five times a day. I can’t even imagine what your inbox is like.

Speaker 4 00:05:37 Um, it’s over a hundred messages a day. During peak times, my first post went viral. I was getting children messages a day for three days, and I actually found it overwhelming. And I’m thinking, how does everybody else cope? They go through this. And my second post, which goes through almost a quarter million views now, I mean, that was just insane. That was almost 800 meth stitches in a week, plus all my usual messages. And it was just hard to keep up with it. And you’re losing, it’s one of these things. Everybody wants to go viral, but nobody tells you how to prepare for what actually happens. It’s like, oh my God, this is exhausting. And I’m just staring at the computer. And because I’m very good at taking breaks to the day. Cause I believe you have to pace yourself. But sometimes I’m like, oh my God, I took half a laptop now, what am I, you know? And you’re still replying to people. And that’s a very interesting thing when it happens to you is you always want it to happen. And then that happens. It’s like, really? Is this what it’s like? I’m actually working harder than ever. So a lot of things you don’t expect, but it was still a great experience. I’m still writing down what happened to me.

Speaker 2 00:06:40 Absolutely. And so, um, so everybody doesn’t know, we were just talking right before we, we started recording about neurologists experience. When we first started talking, he had started to really, um, I had seen make, uh, a lot more of a presence on LinkedIn. And, uh, we talked was that maybe November, December. So it’s been about eight, nine months since that first interview. And since then, I feel like, uh, not only you’ve doubled down and been consistent every single day, you post every day. Um, but the, the engagement, you can just talk to us about the numbers. Let me talk to us a little bit about your trajectory and success and where you’ve seen the most advantageous ways to post or content that people are reacting with.

Speaker 4 00:07:23 Yeah, certainly in terms of, it depends what you want. If you want to get followers very quickly, I found the fastest way of doing that is by writing personal stories and by personal stories, I’m talking about challenges that you’ve injured, uh, traumas you’ve had to overcome situations you’ve been in and talking about either high over comment or high have dealt with that. People relate to that. So the first viral post I had, it was very painful to ride, took me almost two hours to robotics. I couldn’t get the tone, right. And after an hour I have to stop and I just deleted it. And I came back to it four days later. And I’m so glad I did with a clear head and what would have malls. Um, somebody saw me in the McDonald’s car park on a Saturday night, eating by myself in the car.

Speaker 4 00:08:09 It wasn’t a nice place to be. I was just feeling very lonely. I deleted all the online dating apps because getting into work now, and it’s a very small community compared to England where I lived for 30 years. And then when you get a chance to meet people from different cultures, different religions, it’s very exciting in nor no, you don’t get that. It’s a much smaller community. People don’t think on that level. And sadly, a lot of these websites and the only guy with a colored face, I can see anywhere so that doesn’t force to make it more challenging. And I was just getting a bit frustrated because it’s not nice being rejected in life, in business, you expected. Um, and it’s just lonely. I’m approaching 50 years old and I’ve been single for three years. And it’s like, is this what the rest of my life is?

Speaker 4 00:08:50 Like? There’s just that fear that goes through your mind, even though I’m a very positive person, but a very positive mind mindset, that fear just hit me really hard. And I’m going to McDonald’s cause my parents vegetarian and sometimes just got to eat normal food. I’m sorry, but I can’t eat vegetarian from seven days a week. It drives me mad. So it was in the McDonald’s car park in a Saudi. And I just really feeling sorry. I’m just thinking, God is this my life. And the next day I have friends, childhood friends, I was just shopping and she goes, oh, I saw your McDonald’s car pocket pretty miserable. And I said, oh, how come you didn’t come and see me? Oh, I have to go back to the kids and stuff. Like I said, okay, your kids are grown up. Aren’t they? She said, okay.

Speaker 4 00:09:29 And she goes, must be very difficult for you. You know, being so lonely and living with your parents your age and the divorce must have pretty killed you. And I said, at ditch, Michelle, it must be horrible. Everybody’s been talking about five difficulties. And I said, now me to obviously your wedding will sometimes, cause yeah, I said, I’ve known you for 30 years. You must have my number. She goes, I think you do. I checked my phone. I said, is this your number? I said, okay, can I ask why you didn’t call me on the register? Really awkward, uncomfortable calls. And she goes off to go go things to do at home. I said, no, just take a car yourself. And that was it. And I wrote that post saying, look, if people struggling, when you see people in real pain, don’t gossip about them and please don’t ignore them.

Speaker 4 00:10:13 You know, everybody must have had their voice, heard everybody is struggling with something sometimes a kind word or a hug or today’s COVID word, an elbow to the elbow, whatever it is, just listening to. Somebody makes all the difference in the world to the other person. And not that was my post. It was very difficult to write because I wanted to get the tone, right? I didn’t want to come across as angry and it was, it was difficult, but the reaction was on rail on the moment. So look at the reactions from them 130,000 views and a parts on a poster, 2000 likes and about 300 comments. And people just really connect with it. Especially man in the private messaging saying, well, I went through a divorce, nobody understood me, or I suffered from depression, but I can’t tell people. And all of a sudden people are reaching out to you on such a different level. You can even begin to imagine. And I had so many zoom calls that books week later, I had about thirty five forty phone calls with complete strangers saying I’m just here to listen and I’ll happily share what I did to help me get through my mental health and depression when I got divorced. And that was a really powerful thing to be able to do and an amazing way to be able to help people.

Speaker 2 00:11:27 Absolutely. Um, well thank you for sharing that. I think that that’s something that can be missing. I see more younger sales reps is authenticity. They feel like they have to portray themselves in a certain way, especially if they’re younger because they want to project this older mature. So people take them seriously. And uh, so it’s almost like people try to create alter egos when they go into sales, which I think can be helpful a little bit. I get a little bit of a chip on my shoulder, uh, when I go to make calls, right, that’d be able to help deal with the rejection, but I’m always me. And so I think that that’s awesome that you’ve taken that same approach on LinkedIn just to be your authentic self. And it translates.

Speaker 4 00:12:09 It does make a big difference and let’s be realistic. I’m a sales coach. LinkedIn does not need more coaches just to map any of us. Everybody in lockdown became a coach or an expert. In fact, it became so baptizer. I removed the Nam expert from my job title because I was seeing experts everywhere, who weren’t experts. Um, and you know, I think this is the importance of personal development, which you and I are both into. And I always tell people it’s so important to read every day for at least 30 minutes or listen to a podcast as well for half an hour or listen to an audible or watch a video, but just be improving yourself every single day, because you’ll be amazed what you learn. And one of the things I learned locked on, probably the best thing was a quote from Sam Walton.

Speaker 4 00:12:50 When the whole world is going this way, make sure you go in the opposite direction to find your niche. And that’s what I did. I looked over my competition were doing, they were sharing Gary Vaynerchuk quotes and God Kardon coach. I was sharing my own content. Uh, they were, you know, liking a post, but not being really active on LinkedIn. I was consistent on LinkedIn. They were all doing free webinars and bragging about how many people turned up. I did hit four webinars and talked about what clients I want because to me, I’d rather have eight people on a webinar, which is what I have in my first webinar. And my second one has 16 people. My third one had 30. So my third one had 30 people. I charged $47. And that’s how I got my first plot locked down by doing paid for webinars.

Speaker 4 00:13:32 And I was criticized very heavily by a lot of people for doing that for being greedy. And I said, look, I’ve lost my biz. It’s less than 40 at ours. All my face-to-face work has disappeared. I have zero income. I have a child in the final year university. This is great. This is just business. And I was surprisingly, people found it offensive that I charged her, but I’m getting value. And the fact is the proof of the pudding of course, is when people pair for something they’ve value it. And I found that $47 is my cutoff point to start getting coaching interest inquiries. And $97 was the ideal price point in terms of winning bigger customers. So it was good to test all these things last year and see what works and see what didn’t work as well.

Speaker 2 00:14:15 Yeah. I’m always interested. I do think that, you know, sure. If the, for engagement webinars can be great, but if you’re doing them consistently, you’re not charging money. I just don’t wanna think that you’re really respecting yourself. Um, you, I think you know that my wife has her own business and um, really well, this is her, her third one, but it was really interesting. Um, sorry, I’ve got my pit bull off to edit this because over here, going to town on a bone. Um, so, so, so my wife, she had a, uh, she has interior design from before she had a staging business. Everybody offers free consultations and that industry it’s like, once you do meet with me, I’ll walk through your house. And um, my wife was like, you know, she had her first business, she was 24. She was like, no, she’s like, I’m not fucking going to drive a half hour, pay for a babysitter, you know? And then give them an hour of my time, share my ideas, my knowledge driving a half hour back home. And no, absolutely not. So she was charging two 50 just to meet with her. And

Speaker 4 00:15:19 It’s a really

Speaker 2 00:15:19 Good idea. And you know, and she was just like, and she’s like, but I felt like you’re committed to me. I will provide you value then. But then she’s like, I almost always closed the deal because they were already committed. They’d already had a financial investment in me anyway. So I liked, I liked that approach. I think you should charge. And I think that people give away too much value too often.

Speaker 4 00:15:39 They do. And it’s actually an interesting thing. Your wife does it. Very smart thing. She does in my industry. Most coaches do one, our free coaching, which I’ve stopped doing because people just don’t value it. They take it and they just leave and then they go ask them their coach for one of our free coaching. Again, the last coaches talk to each other, I’m often say I had this experience. Hang on a second. That wasn’t so-and-so yes, it was the same thing with me. You know, people talk to each other. So what I do now is we want to have a consultation with me. I send you a word document and I have six questions. You know, what is it you want to achieve? Why do you want to achieve it? Why hasn’t it been achieved yet? What are you gonna get out of the coaching session?

Speaker 4 00:16:16 What deadlines are you working to? And you have to fill those in. I get 10 coaching choirs a month. Now I used to be 10 hours meeting these people on zoom. And I hope, okay, I win one and the rest will be a complete waste of time or they simply couldn’t afford my coaching services. Cause I, I priced myself at the top end of the market because I want to have great clients who want to invest in themselves. I don’t want clients who want discounts, but now I make them fill in this word document out of the 10 people a month, two people who own the word document. And they’re the ones that I meet. And one of those two becomes clients. So that saved me so much timeline. I’m shocked. Number of people who are so lazy, they will fill in a document with a few questions, just asking them about what they want to achieve. Only wants a free coaching. And that’s how I get rid of people now, who I know are a waste of time. And that’s how I find people who are very good, but I love what your wife does as well. That’s a good move.

Speaker 2 00:17:07 Yeah. I just thought it was, it was bold. And she was like, I just don’t care. You know? And I think that that’s, that’s okay. Sometimes in business you can be the contrarian, right? You don’t always have to, uh, just go along to get along and you can do different things within your own vertical. Um, I did want to talk to you about now. It’s great because I feel like you have a good inbound flow, uh, right now with what you’ve been able to build, um, especially on LinkedIn over the last year, but I’m sure it wasn’t always that way. And I know that you’ve done proactively outreach and I know that you coach your clients on how to proactively outreach. So I’m interested to get your take on when you’re doing prospecting. I’ve got a couple questions with this. What is it ideal to start with a video or a voice message or to just use texts at first? Do you have any way that you systematically get engagement better to begin with?

Speaker 4 00:18:04 Whenever I prospect or someday, what all of us do is at least like, and comment on their posts on LinkedIn first, I will then send a personalized invite to, they are not a generic one. Never send a generic invite on LinkedIn, by the way, it’s not memorable. I’m one of the things I’ve learned last year. Some guy called David , who’s a brilliant personal branding expert. He says the most important thing isn’t to be the best is to stand standoff. And I heard that I went, oh, that’s really good. I mean, of course I’m always aiming to be the best, but standing is more important. And I think hiccups really, it’s a really good thing to do when you set a personalized invite and you have already liked and commented or somebody posts Weiss, you do stand for the majority of people. And then after they accept my invite, I never sell ever.

Speaker 4 00:18:51 I never try to book a meeting. Cause again, that’s what everybody else tries to do. Here’s my colleague let’s book. Amazing. So I’ll, I can comment on their posts at least once more. Now, once I’ve done that, I’ll wait for 24 to 48 hours and then I will shoot a video. Sometimes it might do a voice note, but I should a video saying, um, ties. I liked and comments on your posts. Cause I really liked the, by you get in this comment early, like what you have to say. I have some valuable resources I like to share and sales, but I can’t sell you anything because I’ve no idea what you want. In fact, we may not even be the right fit. However, if you can tell me true challenges you’re going through, I’ll be more than happy to share some content, best wishes Neeraj.

Speaker 4 00:19:34 And for me, that’s a very effective way of doing things. And the way I word it means taking me God, 30, already 50 attempts to get this right. But the language is very delivered and I have no doubt that reading our counters books, Jeb Luke’s books have really helped, you know, helped me massively as well because Jeb blurbs in his book, virtual selling says, you know, shoot a video when you’re prospecting. And it makes such a difference because your energy comes across your Zionism, your tone, your personality comes across in ways. It just doesn’t come across on texts. And that’s why I encourage people to do it. It’s different. It stands out it’s energetic and the language I use, we may not even be, you know, I can’t sell to you. I don’t know what you’d want. In fact, we may not even be the right fit.

Speaker 4 00:20:20 You set up to somebody all the sudden their defenses come down a fair bit. Yeah. And that’s how I like the prospect of, I love to do. I find I don’t do it as much as I used to find clicks. I don’t have to anymore. At the same time, I still have to chase clients because clients they’ll go quiet on me or I can do an everybody else. Uh, not as much again as they used to, but it still happens. So I still have to keep prospecting these clients and chasing these clients up in a creative and smart manner.

Speaker 2 00:20:50 Yeah. Thank you all. That is a great insight. And I, and I was immediately what I noticed. I was like, oh, I’m completely being disarmed as he’s talking right now. Like, okay, maybe now I can talk to this person because I’m not going to try to be sold. I don’t even know. He doesn’t even know if it’s the right fit. So how do I know if it’s the right fit? So we should maybe have the call to see if it is right. So yeah, so it’s uh, absolutely brilliant. Um, I told you I’ve been bombarded on a daily basis, uh, with these things and, and a lot of it’s because now, uh, my title, I, so I get hit with a lot of different apps and stuff like that, but I’ve noticed more and more that people are coming to me saying, Hey, we’ve got this great algorithm for LinkedIn. It’s going to automatically, um, follow up for you. It’s going to engage your prospects. I get hit with this stuff all the time. I have no interest because of the personalized stuff we’re talking about, but maybe I could be wrong. There might be effective tools out there. So I want to get your perspective on that kind of bot type, uh, sequencing on LinkedIn. Um, if you’ve had any experience or just kind of your opinion on it.

Speaker 4 00:21:53 Uh, well, there’s two things I know, first of all, LinkedIn, doesn’t take Connie to automated software like that, and it has suspended quite a few people from using it. So I would say, firstly, exercise, great caution because I’m a LinkedIn trainer on almost 55% of my revenue is LinkedIn training. I’ve never going to put that at risk ever. So therefore I don’t use it. I encourage people not to, uh, when people send me automated software requests, it’s got to the point. Now I can tell it’s like, I can tell people are part of the engagement volts, which you should never be in, but you can tell. And I, I always respond to the personalized approach always. And if somebody goes, Hey, Neraj yourself using LinkedIn marketing, uh, or low-cost LinkedIn ads to boost your business. If so we should chat. I’m like, that’s so boring.

Speaker 4 00:22:41 If you sent me Neeraj, I’ve just purchased your book. Everybody works in sales. I love what you said in chapter seven. And you’re the kind of person I really want to speak to. Even if I don’t want your software, I’ll still talk to you for 10 or 15 minutes and listen to what you have to say because you’ve earned my right. You’ve earned my trust, but nobody does that. You know, I was speaking to CTO or a big company. They are not going to mention. And I said to her, I’m not seven different members have stopped contact me from your company of two months, seven different members of staff. Not one of them is followed up by the way, every single person sent me an automated request. Not one of them has looked at my profile because if you looked at my profile, you could see what I would do and you wouldn’t have tried to sell to me or your company really need more than ever sales training.

Speaker 4 00:23:26 You’re a brilliant company. I’ve got so much respect you. I get so much respect for how you’ve grown, but there’s clearly a gap in the market here. That’s being missed. You’re using our revenue. If you don’t hire me, that was a video I sent to her. And that’s where we’re not speaking. She hasn’t said yes yet, but something I have to say, because it was ultimately, it is and automated, lacks the personal touch. And if you want me to do any business with you, you have to be personal with me. Otherwise I will never buy from you. And that’s a very simple rule I have with everybody.

Speaker 2 00:23:57 No, I, it makes it makes total sense. And thank you for sharing that. Cause I did not know that I’ve not, I’ve known I’ve, I’ve experienced it. Um, well from other people influencers, I know on LinkedIn, on LinkedIn, Instagram, same thing. They’ll just, they’ll just lock you up. Turn off your account. How was the, uh, well actually I want to, you mentioned something, engagement, pods, maybe touch on that for a minute because I’ve heard that too. Uh, I’m follow Kylie Francis, uh, we’ve chatted a few times. Cause we were both at 10 X one year and I know she’s a big advocate against do not use engagement. Pods, either

Speaker 4 00:24:31 Engagement calls is when you all belong to a LinkedIn chat group together. And what happens is in the chat group. I would say everybody, I’ve just posted my LinkedIn posts, please reply to ASAP. So the LinkedIn algorithm will think I’m getting lots of likes and comments. So I get why people do it because publicly it looks like you got loads of people commenting on your posts. The problem is it’s not real, but also you have to like, and comment on other people’s crappy posts. And that’s why, because I was part of a pod last year. I didn’t know you shouldn’t be in one. And I was part of it for six months. I did enjoy it. I said, look, every day I got to comment on other people’s posts. I don’t like it doesn’t feel real. And so I ended up leaving the group and then a month after I did that, Daniel Disney to post saying, do not belong to LinkedIn pod.

Speaker 4 00:25:17 They’re really bad. So I’m glad I left, but it’s just not real. And it’s not organic. And now I can always tell LinkedIn pod because everybody will be the exact same people every single day. But the number of comments they get almost identical every single day. And the comments are always, you’re amazing. You’re the best, oh, I would buy from you or I would definitely buy your product. And if you see that in somebody’s posts, you know, it’s not authentic. And you know, they belonged to a LinkedIn engagement call. So police avoid them. It’s much, much better to get loads of comments organically because you get content that really helps people so much in their job. Focus on that. Focus on helping other people and police do not belong to a LinkedIn engagement or also LinkedIn doesn’t like it. And again, they can suspend you for a few days.

Speaker 2 00:26:03 Um, good. I didn’t know that. So that’s really, really good. Um, w let’s talk real quick, uh, about the book, um, over your left shoulder, the ultimate LinkedIn sales guide. How has that book?

Speaker 4 00:26:15 Oh, Daniel’s book. That’s fantastic. Absolutely fantastic book. Um, a about eight copies since it came out, uh, just give to my clients as gifts. I got dangled the sign, I think three off them, but a few were in America. So I just spoke to me and I said, mark, my clients in America, because it’s just a terrific book. I was very honored and very grateful that after his first book became a number one best seller, he sent me to bounce copy last Christmas. And I spent a day going through it, making notes and giving them feedback. And he’s put a few of my ideas into it, which I’m very grateful for. And he thanks me at the beginning on he thanks me in the middle as well, which is so sweet off, but it’s just a really valuable book on LinkedIn. It’s so easy to understand, but that’s a thing for me, a lot of books focused on science, a lot of books just get peer studies.

Speaker 4 00:26:59 I read a book, I want two things, a on, read it easily. And B, I want to get at least one or two takeaways from it. Obviously I’d like to have more, but even just learn one or two things, it’s definitely a good $20 investment. And you know, you’ve gotta be able to invest at least $20 a month in books. Otherwise you have to ask yourself if you don’t invest in yourself, why is anybody going to invest in you? And that’s a very important question. I ask people and a lot of the time they can’t get me an answer. Uh, you know, they just don’t have an answer and some of them are smart and they invest in themselves and mutually with books or conferences or online courses, whatever, but all of them do nothing. And I see them in six months time and they’re in the same job, sending out the same terrible emails. They haven’t changed. Most people ties or sadly would rather keep doing stuff badly than trying something new that will help them become better. Yeah.

Speaker 2 00:27:53 I, I, I totally agree. And, um, you know, I’ve taken that to heart. Obviously you talked about, we’re both big into personal development and just a personal story. So the sales team I managed last year, uh, one guy totally bought into kind of my, just how I live my life. And so he kind of started following that same trajectory. Another guy sits right across from him, do the exact same age. They’re a little different skillset, obviously. Uh, but did not. The guy still plays video games, you know? Um, and the difference is it’s interesting. Get one guy plays, video games, dope, personal development parties on the weekends. Other guy they’re both 26, all in personal development, you know, reading books, multiple never done that in his whole life. One guy just called me. He had a $30,000 paycheck last month. The other guy just got put on, uh, a pit, not there, you know, but it’s because of the investment.

Speaker 2 00:28:50 You can just, you could clearly see that they had the same starting point. They kind of the same mentality, one bought in one didn’t one put in the money and then now he’s reaping the rewards. And, uh, the cool part is you had a $30,000 paycheck and just had a little girl a week ago. Oh, wonderful. You know, so he feels so much better about being 26 and having two kids and being married, you know, young family, it’s kind of rare these days. And, um, he’s making a ton of money, you know, and the other guy’s playing with

Speaker 4 00:29:16 There’s 26, 30,000, but I checked for the year. Exactly.

Speaker 2 00:29:21 Wow. Yeah. So, no, I just think that it’s such great advice, you know, uh, I think that whatever, you can put it in yourself, even if it’s only 20 bucks a month for a book, it it’s absolutely worth it. Um, long-term now one of the things I wanted to ask you, Neeraj, how do you start to take people off LinkedIn and engage with them? So it’s, it’s not always hitting them. How do you transition that, that conversation offline?

Speaker 4 00:29:46 You got to do it very slowly. Um, because again, a lot of things I do, I do learn from my mistakes, a lot of what I learned from other people. What about a lot of books? But I remember at the beginning, I was trying to get people’s email addresses very quickly and all of a sudden they weren’t getting back to me. And I thought, why is that? And it’s quite interesting when people start selling to me and ask me for my email address, I understood why, because when you give somebody your email address, not only do they email you, but then they put you in their newsletters half the time and they just keep emailing you again and again and again. And so people are not straight. They trust LinkedIn and they are happy talking on LinkedIn, but they don’t want to give up their email addresses or their phone numbers too quickly.

Speaker 4 00:30:25 In case you should not to be a bad salesperson or even worse jackass, which some people are and you don’t want to be that person. So what I do is I make sure I have at least one or two conversations with them on LinkedIn first. And then we’ll often recommend a saying, look, this is great. We’re having a great time. Talking here is all so much nicer. You know, talk to somebody face to face at the same time. I’m not going to get in a planner, meet you for half an hour meeting. So why don’t we talk on zoom? Um, because you’re busy now busy. We’ll just do half an hour at most. We’ll probably take only 20 minutes and that that’s a very different way of doing it. So many people want to meet me for the first time, send me a one hour zoom invite.

Speaker 4 00:31:03 I have to reply saying, I’m not going to meet you for an hour. Okay. Let’s do half an hour. We’ll try and do it in 20 minutes. So we can, uh, please research me. I’m not going to ask her any questions about my job, unless you’re digging deep about coaching. You have so many people meet mingle. So what are you doing? Neeraj? I’m like, seriously, look at my LinkedIn profile. You know, before our meeting, I’ll spend time on your website. I’ve spent time on your LinkedIn profile. I expect you to show me or anybody else the same professional courtesy. When you ask questions, like what do you do for a living? You come across so badly, unlike such an amateur police don’t do it. But if you researched somebody, then ask them good questions. You come across as a real pro, you know, and you come across the kind of person I’m more interested in talking to and doing business with, and don’t get me wrong.

Speaker 4 00:31:50 Not again, I’ll meet people and they’re not for me, but I still recommend them to other people. But I think benefit them. If I think there are, they’re a nice person or a helpful person. Um, and that’s very important people to understand, not they think they must get the deal. No, you don’t. Sometimes the business, you get my biggest client and your broad knowledge base and span. I didn’t win that client, a friends, but I know very well. My coaching wasn’t for them. They recommended me to this client and spam. Who’s not my biggest client because somebody recommended me because they liked me. They knew I had integrity and I was a good person. There you go. Not, not by the way. I’m the number one sales person in the world. Not because of won several awards. No, because of a New York times, best seller because of a really nice guy, because I’m trustworthy and I will do right by people. That’s a big deal. And not enough people really think about that sometimes when it comes to sales.

Speaker 2 00:32:45 Totally agree. Totally agree. I had a, a prospecting call last week and the guy told me, he goes, Hey man. He’s like, I don’t buy products. I buy, I buy people. You know? And, and that, it was, it was just, it was rare to hear that, that it’s just, someone’s telling me I’m going to be buying you. So we got to work on building a relationship. And I was like, well, that’s what I’m calling. So great. A wonderful, um, uh, couple more questions for you. I appreciate your time Neeraj. Uh, there are any common mistakes you see when you start working with somebody, uh, with regards to LinkedIn, I know we’ve probably touched on them, but anything that you just say, Hey, definitely don’t do this. It’s something I see a lot of people doing when I start working with them,

Speaker 4 00:33:27 It’s absolutely vital. You’d be consistent. A lot of people will do a post non again, that that doesn’t work. So be consistent in your posts at this stem type mistake people make, when they are consistent long, do a post. That’s just a few lines long and doesn’t really mean anything. And I, some people who are very well known, like Emilia Sardell, she got her posts to be two lines long, but she gets away with it because she’s built up in amazing audience. But if they’re not that well known, you can’t do that. You have to give some kind of context to your posts, tell a story, take people’s journey, or share something valuable for your audience. Don’t just do a post, just a few lines long. It doesn’t help anybody. You’ve really got to spend the time working in this. Now, if you’re running your own business, it is very difficult to find the time writing LinkedIn content during the week.

Speaker 4 00:34:15 And most business owners, I know work on at least a Saturday or a Sunday. And I will say that take Saturday off. If you can’t. And then Sunday morning spent one hour up to as long as 90 minutes working on your five posts for the week, you’ll end up doing forwards, okay. But at least plan five and work out what you want to say, work out the car or station in your client’s mind, work out the experiences you’ve had do the split between 80% business, 20% personal because the personal post is we’re going to get massive followers, strong and engagement, but the business post where you get your business and you don’t get that many business acquires from personal posts. Not again, you do, but it’s often my videos, which are the least viewed things I do only getting to be 2000, 3000 views per video.

Speaker 4 00:34:58 Not very much. That’s where I get my inquiries from. Whereas other text-based posts, I get 20,000, 30,000 views, no inquiries. So, you know, and this is consistently over time. So being consistent, put massive value in, and please share your personal story because lack of discussed people by people. It’s very important to humanize yourself. And when people buy into me, they’re buying into the human being and not buying into everybody works in sales. It’s my company ever nobody’s ever said, you know what? Everybody works in sales. That’s one heck of a company I’m going to hire you. No, they buy into me. And that’s very important to remember.

Speaker 4 00:35:37 Absolutely. Um, do you see that people start? I I’ve, I’ve, I’ve seen this, uh, in a lot of different ways, but I want to get your take on it, that they start to forget about other channels. They get so honed in on LinkedIn or they get so honed in on the phones or email. And how do you kind of recommend, I guess it could be very Pervertical, but how to kind of dice that up and tell people how you can’t forget about different channels, right? It depends what your audiences, my audience is on Instagram. They just don’t, nobody bought, I don’t know any sales coach or any business coach I’ve ever met. He gets any businessmen, scrum. Some people do. If you’re doing bikinis lingerie. Yes, it will. If it in real estate. Sure. Uh, certain things will do very well. Personal development life coaches do pretty good.

Speaker 4 00:36:28 Instagram sales and business. Doesn’t so Instagram there in all fairness, we’re a bit of fun and a lot of my friends, Instagram or not LinkedIn. So I’m there to share, you know, pictures of donuts and cakes and coffees and Franz and stuff like that. It’s not really a business channel. Um, I’ve never had a business inquiry in my life from it. And I know how big numbers there with Twitter I’m on there because a lot of my audience is on there. And I find a lot of people really appreciate it when I share their tweets and make comments as well. And I do a lot Twitter, Facebook. I have tried Facebook advertising, many times of heart-based with experts twice, both often field probably and cost me a lot of money. I just could get people interested in Facebook. All I’ve tried five day challenges. I’ve tried, I’ve tried so many different things.

Speaker 4 00:37:15 It just possible. And if you’re hiring different experts and paying them money, and they’re, they’re apologizing to you saying, I’m so sorry. I don’t know why it’s not working. It’s telling me, okay, Facebook’s not for me. But really for me, LinkedIn has been the platform. And then this year for four months, clubhouse was outstanding for me. Clubhouse that picked up a lot of quick wins, nothing major, but a lot of quick wins. And that really helped build my following on LinkedIn. So I picked up 3000 followers on club post very quickly on about 2000 of those then became followers on LinkedIn very quickly. So that was very interesting. That was, I got both from day one on club clubhouse and I spent two weeks going into various rooms seeing where did I fit in? I would ask questions. I would observe. I’d make no. Oops.

Speaker 4 00:37:59 And then after a month, the people who are running the rooms realized how supportive I was and asked me to speak with them again. I didn’t sell myself. I supported, I helped I’ll do a posting on LinkedIn saying, Hey, you gotta check out this tall posture. I’ve got lot from last night. Again, it’s being a person of massive value to people. You and I both know a famous executor quote. You can get everything you want in life. If you help other people get what they want. And most people in sales don’t think about serving. They think about how do I sell my product? How do I hit my number? How do I get back mission? What am I going to do without commission? What clothes am I going to buy about coaching? What hold am going to go on? That is high 70 to 80% of people think.

Speaker 4 00:38:41 And if we just shift that to hi, can I help people? How can I serve people? Hi, can I be a better human being? How can I help people who don’t help me? Nope. People I’ve helped on LinkedIn the last year who lost jobs, probably 15, maybe 60 people. I’ve just done 20 minutes for them to help them out. Sometimes it’s been half an hour. And so many things I’ve done posts on LinkedIn to say, I lost my job. I was struggling so much. They are out. Just give me a call, help me out. He didn’t ask me for any money. He did not sell me. He didn’t even put me into his newsletter. He didn’t ask me to write a review for him. He just helped me. I am today. I’m not a sales manager for this company. That is one of the best recommendations and testimonies you will ever have in your life. People saying what a good human being you are and how you help them. But I didn’t ask for anything in return and too many salespeople help people. And I say, okay, what are you gonna do for me? You know? And that’s the wrong attitude.

Speaker 2 00:39:36 Uh, totally great. That was actually my last question was to have you touch on clubhouse. I know that you’ve been having have had an active presence. And um, so maybe it was dive a little bit more into that. Has, is it, is it a different better as far as the platform, you know, I’m on there. I don’t ever get on anymore, to be honest with you. Um, it’s something I’ve been terrible about, um, utilizing it, uh, but how have you found it to be more effective or less effective or just compare and contrast

Speaker 4 00:40:07 The best thing? Book to two best things about club Hawks, because face-to-face events been counseled based, but networking is counsel. I don’t enjoy online networking. It’s all not very good. And what Podcasts has done is given me a platform to speak. So I miss speaking events, I really do, but clubhouse has enabled me to slow my speech down because bear in mind, I’m Irish, Irish people speak super fast. My parents are Indian. Indian people speak too fast. I’m the worst of both worlds. I speak so fast. They will need to get over presence. A stronger voice, a better voice is also strong myself with so many brilliant LinkedIn coaches in America and Canada who are much more talented me and being in the same room as them all in the same stages. And I learn from them and that’s been just so good for my personal development.

Speaker 4 00:40:59 And those have been the two best things. I probably said third people I’ve met Tiser on club. Plus the tribe I’ve built has been incredible. Um, those relationships card across to LinkedIn and on quite a few cases in Northern. And I’ve met a lot of these people in real life, which is fantastic. Uh, as of next week, I’m off to England for a two week tour in delivering sales training, LinkedIn training my clients, but I’m also meeting several people I met in clubhouse in January. I’m meeting them face-to-face for the first time. I cannot wait for that. So that’s been the best part of Flomax where a club has kind of field. Now is the momentum wet at the beginning. It was like, you have to be on there. This was, you know, only apple users could get, could get on. It was like this excitement that excitement went off for a awhile.

Speaker 4 00:41:47 And plus the customer services was terrible. It was so few people in customer services and any ideas you’d give them. We never heard back from people. Well, there was no engagement. There was no, I had no relationship with the co-founders. I sent them LinkedIn invites, personalized, heard nothing. You know, you have 3000 followers in less than two months on Podcasts is really good going up, put you in the top 10%. And yet they weren’t engaging with me. They were getting people like, you know, bill gates coming on and mark Zuckerberg coming on saying, Hey, I’m setting up a competitor to the club hos, right? Yeah. It was like, he actually made the announcement on club Fox and setting up a competitor. And I’m like, that was a smart move. You know, you will talk to me, but let someone like, I, we, wherever that, you know, so it’s quite interesting. The decisions they may have just, weren’t very smart, many ways, which I think is a shame and not it’s like I go on there once or twice a week to hang out with friends for like two hours a week. That’s it. But it doesn’t have any impact anymore. Not the impact. It had say six months ago when I was doing a lot of quick LinkedIn training sessions, a lot of off coaching sessions, I picked up a lot of business very quickly, but it was tiny business. It wasn’t, you know, major business.

Speaker 2 00:42:53 That’s great. I totally agree with you. Yeah. I felt like January, February, March, especially that’s all anybody was talking about. How do I get any advice? How do I get on, you know, this is really cool. Um, yeah. And, uh, you know, I, I got to hear, uh, Swan Lynn, that, her name, uh, I think she was like, she had the, she was at the 10 X thing. Um, so as I have to hear her talk about it, cause I think sh she had the most followers on there that she’s a Nike executive. And so I was like, well, this is good. This is going to continue to go. And then it kind of did. It did. So that’s interesting perspective. I’m glad that we touched on that because I was feeling really guilty for not being on there more. So now you’ve made me feel better. Um, barrage of people want to connect with you, where can they find you? Where can they buy your books, um, in all of your content?

Speaker 4 00:43:48 Well, everybody works in sales. I’m the easy guy to sales for business owners. That’s an Amazon. Uh, if you want to get a document and a 16 page document, uh, seven common mistakes to avoid in sales, uh, just go to sales, momentum, academy.com. Otherwise just follow me on LinkedIn. And uh, before I go, I’ll just leave one final comment. My, I mentioned two posts went viral. They’re really touching what I mentioned to you. That the big one was my daughter. I haven’t seen her in 11 months on the post, took me less than 10 minutes to write. I really miss my daughter. She’s not a hugger. She’s, you know, she doesn’t wear a heart on her sleeve like I do. And I’m seeing her after that month, when she arrived at the airport, I shook her hand and said, very nice to meet you. It was very British.

Speaker 4 00:44:31 It was very polite. She doesn’t do homes. And I put her suitcase in the car as she wrapped her arms around me, sitting down at an issue out of is a really touching moment, very emotional for me because she’s not a hugger. And 11 months is a long time not to see your child. These are separate countries. And also because it was COVID, she caught COVID was sick for a week as well. My parents haven’t been vaccinated yet. There’s all kinds of reasons. And that post was tak took me 10 minutes to ride, uh, at the moment it’s on 214,000 views. Um, something like 5,000 comments, sorry, 5,000 likes, uh, over 500 comments. So, you know, you never know how people going to react to posts. I never thought anything could ever go that big. So don’t be afraid of sharing your personal story with people because of a build your following on your brand, on your visibility, on your credibility, on such a big level. That’s the last thing I’d like to leave people with, please?

Speaker 2 00:45:24 Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for all of your insight, knowledge and your time today. Uh, I always enjoy our conversations in all of our interactions. Uh, you’re a beautiful human and uh, thank you for serving and all that you do

Speaker 4 00:45:36 Well, thank you so much. I hope your song has an absolutely amazing birthday today as well.

Speaker 2 00:45:40 Oh, thank you. Yeah, I’m excited. They’re probably headed to the airport here pretty soon to fly home. So it takes so much in a rush.

Speaker 4 00:45:46 I’m still a pleasure. Take care.



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