Nonstop Sales Boom! – w/Colleen Francis

Speaker 1 00:00:21 Part of the way. Thanks for joining me on grind, sell and elevate. I’ve got Colleen Francis with me today. Who’s the founder of engaged selling also an author of a very popular sales book, nonstop sales, boom. Uh, Colleen, how are you today?

Speaker 2 00:00:36 Hey, I’m great. Thanks. Thanks for having me here.

Speaker 1 00:00:39 Absolutely excited to talk to you. Um, I love following your content on LinkedIn. I’ve got great YouTube videos. You put out a lot of great free content, which is always, which is always really nice. Uh, but for maybe people who are not familiar with you and your work, uh, could you introduce yourself?

Speaker 2 00:00:54 Sure. Colleen Francis as you, as you so eloquently put to, um, you can find me everywhere. Um, I’m engaged, but uh, all you have to do is a quick Google search and you’ll see, you know, LinkedIn, Twitter or Facebook. Um, and my specialty is working with, you know, sellers and organizations who work in complex sales situations. It’s general business to business. Um, I like to work with those people who want to get and keep a relationship as opposed to sell and Leave, um, highly competitive markets. That’s where I really like to roll up my sleeves and have a lot of fun with organizations.

Speaker 1 00:01:35 Yeah. It was like probably my market insurance. It’s somewhat competitive.

Speaker 2 00:01:39 Only somewhat, somewhat.

Speaker 1 00:01:42 Right,

Speaker 2 00:01:43 Exactly.

Speaker 1 00:01:45 One of the first things I wanted to ask you about, that I don’t think I covered enough on here, but it’s one of the things that I felt it’s really helped me in my career was setting goals for salespeople. And I saw a recent video. You had done kind of talking on goal setting. So I thought that’d be a good place for us to start and how you feel goal setting and what you think is important about it for salespeople.

Speaker 2 00:02:04 And then, yeah. You know, I think there’s a couple of things. Well, from a leadership perspective, I think that there’s a couple of things, you know, goals have to be set, um, that are in alignment with what the company wants to achieve, um, and what they need to achieve. And they need to be communicated and the need to a pathway needs to be created. Right? So a lot of people forget that they just throw the goal out there and no one really knows if it’s achievable or not. And salespeople will notoriously look at it and say, that’s not achievable. Um, and so they, cause they can’t see the pathway to success. So that has to be created, you know, but I think with salespeople as well, you know, inside of that, there are opportunities for them to also set their own goals. If you, maybe you want to achieve more than what’s being asked of you or achieve it differently, or maybe, you know, in your marketplace, in your territory, you can achieve that goal with, with, you know, um, you know, more net new clients or repeat clients or new products coming on board.

Speaker 2 00:02:59 So I think all of those things are important. You know, salespeople are notoriously competitive, we have to be. And so we’ve got to be goal-oriented um, it’s the only way to really create that success.

Speaker 1 00:03:11 No, I, I really appreciate that. And then you said something about, you know, uh, oftentimes, uh, corporate will set a goal, right? And I’ve had this happen to me several times over my career. I’m like, how did they come up with this fricking number? Like, it’s just, it’s a complete mystery and not every sales leader does a great job of laying out that path. So if I’m listening to this and I’m like, Hey, that’s me, this is my situation. Is there something that individual sellers should be looking at in order to hit those metrics, even though they don’t really can’t conceptualize from a 30,000-foot view?

Speaker 2 00:03:42 Well, I think there’s two things. First of all, you have to separate out the, um, out of your goal. How much is it going to come from new business versus repeat business? Because you have very different closing ratios there. Um, and I think that’s important. So when, if you take the new business goal, um, then the first step is understanding what your conversion ratio is. So what is the closing ratio from qualified leads? Let’s call it that qualified opportunities to close and take that percentage and multiply it, right? So, you know, if you have a hundred thousand dollars new business, you have to do, and you’ve got a closing ratio of 30%, you need $300,000 of qualified opportunities in order to close that. And that number is really important to be real about, honest about because you know, your closing ratio, who is not always what people have in their CRM, you know, I see all sorts of shenanigans, right?

Speaker 2 00:04:36 I’m sure people will put real deals in the pipeline. So your closing ratio look 75%. I mean, that’s just BS, right? I mean, to be Frank. Um, and so, you know, if you don’t know, then 30% is about average for most people. Um, so I, I take a look at that and then I say, okay, let’s, let’s go back again and see how many what’s my conversion ratio from. Let’s just call it names on a business card to the qualified opportunity because that number could be anywhere from 10% or to 90% depending on your market. And what that does is it tells you how many leads do I need? How many qualified opportunities do I need to get to the right amount of closes? And then you can break it down all the way, if you want to say, okay, how many outreaches is that every day? But that’s how you, that’s how that’s the easiest way to create the path.

Speaker 1 00:05:27 I think that that’s so powerful understanding every day to have a game plan and have a target daily, as I stole a saying from Andy Frisella, you know, if you, if you went every day, you can’t lose.

Speaker 2 00:05:39 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 00:05:40 Right. And that’s all sales is true.

Speaker 2 00:05:43 Well, absolutely. And you know, I was working with an organization who had a high amount of repeat business and they were given a new business goal and they all just said, look at it. So there’s no, no way we can create this. There’s no way. And they went through, you know, an hour of whining and justification of why it couldn’t be done. And we broke down the math and realized all it meant was they had to create two opportunities a week in order for them to hit their goal, not to leads to opportunities. And when they looked at that, they went, oh, well that’s manageable. But they had overestimated the amount of work it was going to take and thought, oh, like, you know, 10 or 20 opportunities a week. I don’t have time for that. So when we broke it down, they went, oh, okay. And now they can do quote, you win every day. It’s easy.

Speaker 1 00:06:28 Abs. Absolutely. And you said another key thing, and we talked a little bit about, you know, entering stuff into the CRM system. And, you know, we use, we use Salesforce where I work and, um, it’s a very effective tool, but I’ve found that, um, not always reps will take advantage of their CRM system, you know, walk us through, you know, how you view a CRM system and kind of your thoughts on that and how to utilize it.

Speaker 2 00:06:52 Yeah. I, I think of my CRM system as like my brain replicated over here. So I have to, right, because when you’re a busy sales rep and you’re managing multiple clients, multiple stakeholders in those clients, multiple products, multiple opportunities, multiple leads, there’s just no way for you to remember all of that and things slip through the crack. Um, so I really see it as a sales productivity tool. From that standpoint, I loved, you know, when I worked for a larger organization, being able to come in in the morning and look at my checklist, my to-do list or my hot list or whatever, and be able to prioritize my day based on what needed to be done as opposed to sitting down and drinking coffee and thinking, okay, who do I have to call in? Today’s like the ability to not have to think about staying organized.

Speaker 2 00:07:45 Plus, you know, I think from a productivity standpoint, it’s critical because it allows you to look in real time at your pipeline and make decisions about who needs activity, who needs, um, calls, emails, nurturing, whatever that is on the priority of those deals. What’s left to close in the month, as opposed to, you know, clients. And, you know, I can’t make this stuff up who walk in and say, well, today sounds like an M day. So I’ll just start calling all the M prospects by him. And that’s, it’s very much a kid that kind of sales mentality is very much akin to like the old route sales people. And I was working with a clients. Um, couple of years ago we were onsite for a leadership team meeting and we were talking about selling and strategic selling. And one of them pulled out. He had found in the archives, a sales training manual that they had been given. I don’t know, 30, 40 years ago that showed if you make only right hand turns on your route, you can make more calls in a day. You know, people still kind of think in, in those kinds of businesses, well, it’s Tuesday. So I’ll make my Tuesday clients as opposed to being strategic about it. And that’s what the CRM helps you to do.

Speaker 1 00:08:59 Yeah. I, I totally agree. I I’ve always, I found that to be interesting with people I’ve heard that same sentiment, like yeah. And I come in the morning and um, I just kind of pick Brandon 20 people and just to kind of get the juices flowing. I’m like that is a terrible strategy.

Speaker 2 00:09:14 It is a terrible, terrible strategy. You know, the numbers that your CRM produces are your metrics. And, you know, looking at those metrics is so critical because if you’re overestimating getting your close rate by double, then you’re not doing enough work. If you’re underestimating it, maybe you’re doing the wrong work. Um, and so, you know, the numbers might not look pretty all the time, right? It’s not about whether they’re good or bad, they are just what they are. And I always laugh because sales reps will say, well, the date is wrong, but you put it in there. Right.

Speaker 2 00:09:47 So I tell them garbage in garbage stays when it comes to your CRM. Right. So it’s a critical tool. Um, and you know, whether you use Salesforce or, or, um, you know, vanilla soft, or, uh, any of the other CRMs, I think it’s irrelevant. I do have some clients who run a hundred million dollar businesses on spreadsheets. I don’t recommend that. Why can we, that’s not a good idea. Right? They’re still using some kind of tracking tool to understand the metrics from an executive perspective to get your crystal ball. Like, you know, if you have to go to the, your leadership team and say, this is my forecast, it needs to be accurate. Otherwise it’s your head. That’s going to

Speaker 1 00:10:33 Guilty.

Speaker 2 00:10:35 Exactly. Yeah. You only get away with that for so many quarters before somebody gets in trouble.

Speaker 1 00:10:43 Yeah, totally. And one of the things I did want to talk to you about too, is it always amazes me if you don’t know this, but I’ve managed hundreds of sales reps and we’re the ones that, uh, typically are, are struggling. You know, one of my first questions, you know, is like, Hey, let’s take a look at your pipeline. Right. You know, what do you got going on? And you call on the same 20 people are, who are you calling by? Talk to us a little bit about how to kind of grow that funnel, because it’s always amazing to me, um, people’s perception on how often and how long they should be prospecting.

Speaker 2 00:11:15 Yeah. That’s a great question because I think people underestimate that all the time. Um, so a couple of things, you know, I think in this marketplace, especially, and it’s been like this for, you know, five or so years, but it’s really exaggerated. Now. It takes a lot of repetitive work with the same people or organizations to actually get in the door. And so, you know, it’s not just a matter of send three emails and the guy not returning your call and you think, well, that’s, I’m done with that, right. If it’s a good looking lead that I, you know, from a business perspective, it might be, you need to reach out to more people. Uh, some of my clients reporting it can take, you know, now up to 12 attempts in various types of media to get someone’s attention. If that person is cold, right.

Speaker 2 00:12:02 And they have a referral or you’ve got some kind of link, then that’s going to accelerate your success. Um, so I think that that’s really important. And I think what’s critical for salespeople is, um, in that process, prospecting effort is to mix up the media, right? So you can’t just pick up the phone, you have to send emails, you’ve got to connect with them on LinkedIn or whatever the social platform is. You have to network with them in whatever forums they’re networking in, because people are not gonna respond. Um, as well as they used to, to a pure cold call, like I used to do in the insurance business, like literally open the white pages. If people remember what that is and just start calling, right. That’s just people don’t pick up their phones for those, those kinds of calls anymore. So I think that that’s critical.

Speaker 2 00:12:51 And then I think, you know, you’ve just got to work backwards with the math. I’m not a fan of saying to anybody, make 20 calls a day or whatever the number is or spend two hours a day. My, uh, my formula is what is the right number for based on the metrics that, uh, your conversion ratios are telling you, and that’s how many calls have to be made. And if it’s 50, well, then we have to maybe look at a little bit more detailed nuanced analysis using, you know, uh, some sales, velocity, maybe your deal size is too small or something, but

Speaker 1 00:13:25 No, I love that. And it’s so funny. The last organization I was with, it was make $80 a day. And I, as a rep, when I started there, I did my own conversion ratios because it wasn’t provided for us. I figured out I needed to make 47 to either to hit my target number and right. So I, that I would get, I would get hit on all the time. Like, Hey, you’re not making your $80 a day, but I’m like, Hey, I’m a number one in the country, as far as a rookie. And I’m number six overall, like whatever I’m doing is working. And so I’ve saw that happen with my team. Some guys I would, I would, uh, in gals, I would have scheduled for 57 calls. Other would be, you know, 23 just based on their own conversion ratio. So I think that’s a really key point that not enough people talk about

Speaker 2 00:14:08 Absolutely to me like that random 80 number is just like a vanity metric. It’s stupid. I had a client who, um, uh, he, uh, he doubled his results. He was the number one sales rep at the end of the year. And I think he didn’t double what the number two guy did yet. And he was in the Agra cultural, um, business. And, uh, then the owner said, well, you didn’t put as much miles on your truck as everybody else. So you’re not, you clearly, weren’t doing the work. So you’re not going to get your full bonus and yeah, exactly. Because they did some, uh, MBO type non-transparent bonuses and he’s like, but don’t you think you should be looking at what I’m doing because I’m actually more profitable. I doubled my results and I spent less on gas, completely misaligned. Right. So I think leaders have to look at that. If you’re, if you’ve got an outlier on the team, um, a client of mine and software did this, she said, and she was smart. She said, we need to figure out what this person is doing because her demos are half as long as everyone else’s. And our closing ratio is twice as good of what is she doing on those demos that she can close twice as many deals in 20 minutes, as opposed to the 45 minutes it’s taking everybody else.

Speaker 1 00:15:23 Yeah. I love that. And that, and th this is, uh, you know, something to just kind of spur the moment I just kind of came to mind. How important is it to give, um, autonomy to salespeople to kind of let them run their own little shop?

Speaker 2 00:15:38 Oh, wow. That’s it. That’s a great question. A bit of a loaded question. I think, you know, I think my attitude as a sales VP was always that I gave my team latitude if they were hitting our targets, but if they were consistently behind and they were going to do it my way. Um, so I do think, you know, I think that some sales reps can have autonomy in that they know how many calls they need to make, or they know how many leads that they need. Um, but that doesn’t mean that they need to be there so autonomous that they can’t be coached or shouldn’t be coached, because I do think that you need to check in with people, you know, just, uh, I mean, I use sporting analogies all the time and, you know, regardless of, um, uh, what kind of sport you watch, if, you know, we think about someone like Tom Brady, who everyone generally knows, regardless of whether you’re a sports fan or not.

Speaker 2 00:16:28 I mean, arguably the best football quarterback out there has been for a long time yet he still has to show up for practice, right. I mean, he doesn’t get away with not being coached. Um, he’d probably get fine if you want showing up at practice and that’s because the coaches need to check in on what kind of results he’s, you know, achieving what needs to be leveraged, what can he be doing more of that’s working and what does he need to try to fix it? The pinch point for the team and, and your sales team is exactly the same thing.

Speaker 1 00:17:01 No, I love that the practice is huge and I’ve talked to her about before a little bit on the podcast, but it, um, even actually on the last one, uh, I was chatting with the gentleman who was a, he’s an entrepreneur. And we were kind of talking about that just at how many people, when they graduate high school or college, they kind of stop learning. And if you take sports as an analogy, like they, they show up in their practice every day. And like, just cause you’re in sales, you’re an engineer. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t practice your craft. It’s crazy.

Speaker 2 00:17:28 Yeah. We are really, as business professionals, we are the only professional out there that plays more than we practice. You know, if you’re a music professional, an acting professional, uh, you know, or a sports professional, you practice way more than you play. Right. And so whether you’re winning or losing practices is critical. And I think we should be paying attention to that. Um, because you know, the, either the people we look at as being the ultimate, ultimate tem people in their professions, when they make the New York Philharmonic or they make the, you know, Tampa bay, lightning, whatever, right. And look at what their rigorous

Speaker 1 00:18:11 And, and kind of staying on that practice mindset. Um, just, you know, uh, another story I was, uh, not last organization. I was the only sales manager that had a sales meeting every day from 8, 8 30. And my thought process behind that was I wanted to get all the troops, uh, on the mission for the day everybody’s in alignment. And oftentimes I would spend, uh, you know, two-three days a week just doing role play, just kind of gave them fresh. And the feedback from my reps was the call with Ty and the role-plays, maybe my worst one of the day. So whatever I’m going to face, you know, it’s going to be nothing compared to that. Role-play but I want to get your thought on how much a sales manager or sales leader should be implementing their own kind of little mini practices throughout the week or month.

Speaker 2 00:18:54 Yeah, it’s great. So my magic formula is three hours per month per rep. Now that doesn’t mean one-on-one time. That can be some of that session, but that’s the metric that I’m looking for in our sort of baseline. If you guys super junior team or a team that’s underperforming, you might have to do more than that. You should never do less than that. Um, and so the practice, I think, comes in a number of ways. I think that there definitely should be some role playing. Um, I think there should be some discussion and feedback on successes. Salespeople learn really well when they’re learning from their peers. And so I like to see, um, sessions where people bring either difficult cases or wins into the meeting and they’re dissected, not just like, Hey, I went out and I presented to this guy and I won, you know, and it, but, but detail, like what, what questions did you ask? Who did you talk to inside that, um, account? How long did it take you? Because the more detail that you get out on that, how they accomplished that the rest of the reps sit back and they’re like, oh, okay, well, if Ty can do that, I can do that too. Right. They learn from each other that way. So I think that’s really important.

Speaker 1 00:20:06 Yeah. That’s very powerful. But when it comes to one of the things I I’ve heard you, you speak on and talk about that. I think it’s, it’s a really pivotal and it’s overlooked because we’re so onto the next kill is, um, we’re looking at the customers that we’ve already cultivated. So talk to us a little bit about like, how, how do you look for business there and how do you kind of keep those people fresh?

Speaker 2 00:20:26 That’s a great, um, a great point. And I love talking about this. We actually talked about it in nonstop sales, boom, cause we talked about building a sales radar where you’re, you’re constantly looking to fill your pipeline from various sources, new and existing customers. It’s amazing to me, how many people don’t sell more to their existing customers and how many customers don’t buy more from you simply because they don’t know that more exists. It’s crazy. You know, people be like, oh, I know you see your soul that I should have. So I do think it takes some kind of, um, it’s a deliberate, systematic approach, right? Um, categorizing your accounts. And so I’m not a believer in categorizing accounts into like best versus worst or biggest for smallest. I like a new, more nuanced approach where you’re actually looking at potential to grow. And those that have high potential to grow are treated one way.

Speaker 2 00:21:23 And those that have low potential to grow are treated another way. Keep in mind some of those low potential to grow could be some of your biggest accounts. They just, you know, they have full share of wallet with you. So there’s nothing that you can sell them. And then once you know, who have the huge potential to grow, then mapping out a plan to show them what those solutions are, how they’re going to benefit them, find out who the right people are to talk to, um, and add those prospecting activities to your, to your, your daily work.

Speaker 1 00:21:52 I really liked that approach because it’s so often, and, you know, um, you know, as you know, especially in insurance, you know, you get the whale hunters, right. And they’re so fixated, like on the big score where, you know, I’ve always looked at, like, it didn’t matter if I was selling auto insurance or health insurance to a company. If it’s a company with four people versus 400, I want to give them the same amount of attention and love because it never know where that referral is going to be or what other lines you can get from them. And I just, I’ve always hated that way of looking at a clients.

Speaker 2 00:22:22 Yeah, yeah. Me too. And you know, it’s so it’s, it can be so easy. So I worked with a company who essentially it was a third party logistics company, um, who did like a shipping and receiving, right. So people would farm out all of their shipping requirements. So kind of a commodity market. They’re probably going crazy right now, the lack of truck drivers on the road. But, you know, they increased their business by 25% simply by adopting the McDonald’s approach. Um, because what they would normally do is someone would call in and say, I need, you know, X I need, this is the load. And it’s going from, you know, Houston to, to Nashville and needs to be there by Tuesday. And they’d say, okay, great. And they set it up, but then I got them to just say, is there anything else you’re working on that I can help you with 25% increase in sales from that one question, of course, simple. Like, oh yeah. You know what, good question. I’ve got this other one. It just came across my desk. It’s crazy. Simple questions. Nice.

Speaker 1 00:23:20 Right. Low hanging fruit. That’s all it is.

Speaker 2 00:23:23 Yeah.

Speaker 1 00:23:24 Yeah. Um, one of the last questions I wanted to ask you is based on kind of comp structure, you know, comp plans can be a, I’ve experienced it, I’m sure. In the convoluted, um, do you have a favorite structure, a one you kind of try to steer people in, or is it based on vertical? How do you kind of view that when you’re helping your clients?

Speaker 2 00:23:44 So my first rule is remembering that salespeople do exactly what they’re paid to do. So you have to remember that because however you structure your comp plan is exactly the behavior you’re going to get. Um, so that’s rule number one, rule number two is it has to be transparent. So I am not a fan and I’ve got a client. I will not ever move him off of this. He holds some of his comp plan back cause he wants to give it to the people he think are well, they’re working harder than others. Who’s working, you know, in his own subjective. Right. Right. That’s the person who’s making 80 calls instead of 47. Right. So none of that.

Speaker 2 00:24:24 And then in most industries, um, I like, uh, a pretty equal balance between salary and, um, and variable compensation. I will never advocate for a hundred percent commission. Um, actually in most states and provinces in Canada, it’s not even truly legal against, you know, when it comes to the labor code, if you’re, if they’re employees, but regardless of that, I just don’t think that it’s the right way to motivate people to the right behaviors. So some kind of base salary, depending on the marketplace, um, and, uh, what you know, and your experience in the marketplace and then a compensation plan or a variable compensation plan that rewards both achievement. Um, and then maybe some accelerator goals depending on what the company is trying to accomplish, but as simple as possible.

Speaker 1 00:25:19 Yeah. I think that, I think you hit it right in the head because I’ve experienced it where it’s like, Hey, we’re going to give you a, you know, a 25 K base. You’re like, cool. Well, you know, I can’t feed my family for six months until I get my pipeline up. So thanks. See you later. Or they give you a, you know, a hundred, everybody’s looking for 150 K salary and then you’re like, well then are you too comfortable to, to really push the envelope?

Speaker 2 00:25:43 Yeah. There’s a balance there. And I think it’s important. Like the comp plan has to be achievable, right? So people have to see that they can actually hit those goals. Um, which I think is really important. And it has to be simple enough that they could actually figure out how much they’re going to get paid on the back of a napkin, like salespeople will, you know, right or wrong notoriously. They think if it’s so complicated, they don’t know how they’re going to get paid. Then they just naturally think the company is doing that on purpose to screw them really like that’s, that’s, that’s their brain just goes, well, this is unachievable. Or they’re just trying to, you know, to cheat me out of, um, uh, commission. So it has to be really simple that that way so that they can calculate it. Um, and I think there has to be a balance, like, you know, it’s high risk, high reward. And frankly, if someone came to me and said, you know, I want $150,000 base, and maybe that was my, you know, full comp package, you know, the solution to that. It was okay then your upside is really, but you’ve got two quarters in two quarters in a row. And your risk now is no job security. You can’t have it both ways. So if you want a high base, then my tolerance for you not hitting your target has gone way down. Right.

Speaker 1 00:27:01 Makes, makes total sense. Um, Colleen now, uh, when it comes to your book, where can people get the book that you have out? And do you have anything else coming up on the horizon?

Speaker 2 00:27:12 Yeah, I mean, everything’s always available on Amazon, right? So I have nonstop sales, boom is out. It’s been out for about four or five years and I have a book launching in the new year. Um, I think I just saw that it, uh, it’s available for pre-order, but it’s not being shipped until like March 29th, to be fair with everybody, um, called right on the money, uh, which I’m really excited about because we wrote it and then the pandemic hit and then we completely rewrote it based on what, what has happened over the last 18 months. So I’m excited to have that one out there.

Speaker 1 00:27:49 Awesome. Well, thank you. And where can people find you? What would be the best place to find you if all your content?

Speaker 2 00:27:55 Yeah, you can find me on my website, engaged, and sign up for a bunch of free content. LinkedIn is also a really good, good place. You know, what you’re doing. Um, you know, probably once a month and we’ll wrap that up in the new year. Um, maybe once a week, LinkedIn live free training sessions that are usually 30 to 45 minutes as well. Um, but yeah, those are two that those are the easiest places are LinkedIn and my website.

Speaker 1 00:28:20 Awesome. Thank you so much everybody listening. And whether you’re watching this on YouTube or any of the pile of 30 podcast outlets, um, everything will be in the show notes to be able to buy, uh, Coleen’s book, pre-order the new one, or connect with her, um, and calling any last words of advice for any of those sellers out there.

Speaker 2 00:28:39 Well, I just think, you know, keep learning right. That I have been selling for 30 odd years and I see more change in the last two years than I have seen in the 20 previous years. And, you know, just like me more from payphones to pay to beepers, to cell phones, car phones, to cell phones, to smartphones. Um, we need to continue to evolve in our selling practices because now you’re selling by doing stuff that worked in the seventies or the eighties. Um, as I see many people doing today, um, yeah, it’s terrible. Right. Um, and so I like to say, think about best practices now as being dynamic. It may have been a best practice last week with that customer, but it might not be the right best practice this week with this customer as they need to have that expanded toolbox.

Speaker 1 00:29:30 Yeah. Wonderful advice. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. It’s been a pleasure speaking with

Speaker 2 00:29:35 You. Hey, my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Thank you.



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